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	<title>Comments on: Letter to a Pentecostal Scholar</title>
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		<title>By: spencer ledbetter</title>
		<link>http://renewaldynamics.com/2012/07/08/letters-to-a-pentecostal-scholar/comment-page-1/#comment-15806</link>
		<dc:creator>spencer ledbetter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2012 19:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://renewaldynamics.com/?p=3878#comment-15806</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Commenting on the anti-intellectualism of Pentecostals I believe requires looking at two factors:
1) There have always been Pentecostal scholars as in any other field or profession, and
2) The anti-intellectualism was based on the perception of the sufficiency of the Holy Spirit as opposed to the insufficiency of academia to replace it.  

There certainly was a fear that intellectualism served as a substitute for the Holy Spirit.  This was not true biblically, but examples of  scholarship where many put their trust in their own mind (e.g Rationalism, Empiricism, Liberal Theology, and Religious Pluralism) rather than on what the scriptures esxpressly taught, was replete as well.  The true academic enterprise is not to be feared any more than ignorance is to be praised.  But discernment as to what is the will of God as opposed to what isn&#039;t, must always be upheld!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Commenting on the anti-intellectualism of Pentecostals I believe requires looking at two factors:<br />
1) There have always been Pentecostal scholars as in any other field or profession, and<br />
2) The anti-intellectualism was based on the perception of the sufficiency of the Holy Spirit as opposed to the insufficiency of academia to replace it.  </p>
<p>There certainly was a fear that intellectualism served as a substitute for the Holy Spirit.  This was not true biblically, but examples of  scholarship where many put their trust in their own mind (e.g Rationalism, Empiricism, Liberal Theology, and Religious Pluralism) rather than on what the scriptures esxpressly taught, was replete as well.  The true academic enterprise is not to be feared any more than ignorance is to be praised.  But discernment as to what is the will of God as opposed to what isn&#8217;t, must always be upheld!</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Wilson</title>
		<link>http://renewaldynamics.com/2012/07/08/letters-to-a-pentecostal-scholar/comment-page-1/#comment-13403</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jul 2012 17:31:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://renewaldynamics.com/?p=3878#comment-13403</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dr. Vondey,

This is in regards to your upcoming letter which will more fully address Pentecostal anti-intellectualism. I am only half way playing devil’s advocate here as there is much truth in what I am about to say: there was/ is a good reason for classical Pentecostals to be anti-intellectual, many  people come out of seminary worse for the experience. This is not because their eyes have suddenly been opened, rather it is usually because they have been indoctrinated into a school of thought without even realizing it. This process takes years of selective readings and exclusions of competing ideas. It seems that almost all are unaware of the box they are being put into including people with otherwise brilliant minds. Perhaps this is because there is a supernatural element to any seminary education as well. Reformed seminaries graduate 5 pt Calvinists, liberal seminaries graduate students who hold to a low view of scripture, etc. Obviously the students were predisposed towards those view points or they wouldn’t have chosen those seminaries in the first place. However very, very few people can take a step back from their situation and see their own box.     

Your brother in Christ,
Chris]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Vondey,</p>
<p>This is in regards to your upcoming letter which will more fully address Pentecostal anti-intellectualism. I am only half way playing devil’s advocate here as there is much truth in what I am about to say: there was/ is a good reason for classical Pentecostals to be anti-intellectual, many  people come out of seminary worse for the experience. This is not because their eyes have suddenly been opened, rather it is usually because they have been indoctrinated into a school of thought without even realizing it. This process takes years of selective readings and exclusions of competing ideas. It seems that almost all are unaware of the box they are being put into including people with otherwise brilliant minds. Perhaps this is because there is a supernatural element to any seminary education as well. Reformed seminaries graduate 5 pt Calvinists, liberal seminaries graduate students who hold to a low view of scripture, etc. Obviously the students were predisposed towards those view points or they wouldn’t have chosen those seminaries in the first place. However very, very few people can take a step back from their situation and see their own box.     </p>
<p>Your brother in Christ,<br />
Chris</p>
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		<title>By: Wolfgang Vondey</title>
		<link>http://renewaldynamics.com/2012/07/08/letters-to-a-pentecostal-scholar/comment-page-1/#comment-13270</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolfgang Vondey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jul 2012 14:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://renewaldynamics.com/?p=3878#comment-13270</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, Nanez&#039; book is an important account, along the lines of Mark Noll&#039;s idea of the scandal of the Evangelical mind. But I don&#039;t think he goes far enough in offering an analysis and remedy of the situation. I will try to say more about this in my next letter on the nature of Pentecostal anti-intellectualism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Nanez&#8217; book is an important account, along the lines of Mark Noll&#8217;s idea of the scandal of the Evangelical mind. But I don&#8217;t think he goes far enough in offering an analysis and remedy of the situation. I will try to say more about this in my next letter on the nature of Pentecostal anti-intellectualism.</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff Jackson</title>
		<link>http://renewaldynamics.com/2012/07/08/letters-to-a-pentecostal-scholar/comment-page-1/#comment-13246</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff Jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jul 2012 02:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://renewaldynamics.com/?p=3878#comment-13246</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[W,
Amazingly mystical account of your personal calling to be a minister on your website. As a tad of a mystic myself, I envy you. I have never heard the audible voice of God, but  I do believe that such events, though very rare, do happen. I tend to value subjective, experiential, intuitive (I am 100% intuitive, discerning, on the Myers-Briggs), emotional, feeling truth over objective, rational truth (although I filter my subjective &quot;take&quot; via my rational, analytic, legal-trained mind). If there is a conflict between the two, I go with the intuitive every time. Rarely, if ever, has this been a decision I regretted.
Cliff]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>W,<br />
Amazingly mystical account of your personal calling to be a minister on your website. As a tad of a mystic myself, I envy you. I have never heard the audible voice of God, but  I do believe that such events, though very rare, do happen. I tend to value subjective, experiential, intuitive (I am 100% intuitive, discerning, on the Myers-Briggs), emotional, feeling truth over objective, rational truth (although I filter my subjective &#8220;take&#8221; via my rational, analytic, legal-trained mind). If there is a conflict between the two, I go with the intuitive every time. Rarely, if ever, has this been a decision I regretted.<br />
Cliff</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff Jackson</title>
		<link>http://renewaldynamics.com/2012/07/08/letters-to-a-pentecostal-scholar/comment-page-1/#comment-13245</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff Jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jul 2012 02:17:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://renewaldynamics.com/?p=3878#comment-13245</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[W,
Absolutely. I am not easily chased from the Pentecostal fold by those who have hijacked my faith. Btw, I suspect you are familiar with Rick M. Nanez&#039; book, Full Gospel, Fractured minds, which is about the anti-intellectual propensity of Pentecostalism. I am encouraged by some social justice Pentecostals in South America just as I am disheartened by the prosperity gospel message sweeping Africa, where (per a Pew poll) in Nigeria, I think it was, 90% of ALL Christians (not just Pentecostals) think &quot;poverty is a sin&quot; and &quot;God wants me to be rich.&quot;

All this raises the question: Is false hope better than no hope at all?

And a related question: Can God, does God, turn even the Gospel of Greed to good in that He permits (while abhorring) it but uses folks&#039; selfishness, greed, and (genuine) desire for a better life to bring them in the fold (where they can be &quot;straightened out&quot; later)?

Cliff]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>W,<br />
Absolutely. I am not easily chased from the Pentecostal fold by those who have hijacked my faith. Btw, I suspect you are familiar with Rick M. Nanez&#8217; book, Full Gospel, Fractured minds, which is about the anti-intellectual propensity of Pentecostalism. I am encouraged by some social justice Pentecostals in South America just as I am disheartened by the prosperity gospel message sweeping Africa, where (per a Pew poll) in Nigeria, I think it was, 90% of ALL Christians (not just Pentecostals) think &#8220;poverty is a sin&#8221; and &#8220;God wants me to be rich.&#8221;</p>
<p>All this raises the question: Is false hope better than no hope at all?</p>
<p>And a related question: Can God, does God, turn even the Gospel of Greed to good in that He permits (while abhorring) it but uses folks&#8217; selfishness, greed, and (genuine) desire for a better life to bring them in the fold (where they can be &#8220;straightened out&#8221; later)?</p>
<p>Cliff</p>
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		<title>By: Wolfgang Vondey</title>
		<link>http://renewaldynamics.com/2012/07/08/letters-to-a-pentecostal-scholar/comment-page-1/#comment-13240</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolfgang Vondey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jul 2012 00:49:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://renewaldynamics.com/?p=3878#comment-13240</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Cliff for a heartfelt comment. Your experience shows a side of anti-intellectualism many are not comfortable with. We like to create a more homogeneous image of Pentcostalism than it is often found in public life. You helped me see my own letter in a light that I did not see before, perhaps not even intended. Intellectually, I am sure many have questions to the Pentecostal churches that have to be answered and yet remain unanswered. What I intended with my letter, however, was to ask about those who do follow the life of the mind and wish to remain Pentecostal. Those wold ask the question of the intelligibility of the prosperity gospel, for example, and how this can be reconciled with social activism among the poor elsewhere among Pentecostals. My thought is that there are many who would like to become scholars but who hesitate on their commitment to Penecostalism at the same time. You speak of the other side, which exists, of those who are dedicated to Pentecostalism but hesitate to ask critical, inquisitive questions that challenge the status quo. I am sorry about your hurtful experiences and can only remain prayerful in the hope that you remain committed to both the Pentecostal life and the life of the mind.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Cliff for a heartfelt comment. Your experience shows a side of anti-intellectualism many are not comfortable with. We like to create a more homogeneous image of Pentcostalism than it is often found in public life. You helped me see my own letter in a light that I did not see before, perhaps not even intended. Intellectually, I am sure many have questions to the Pentecostal churches that have to be answered and yet remain unanswered. What I intended with my letter, however, was to ask about those who do follow the life of the mind and wish to remain Pentecostal. Those wold ask the question of the intelligibility of the prosperity gospel, for example, and how this can be reconciled with social activism among the poor elsewhere among Pentecostals. My thought is that there are many who would like to become scholars but who hesitate on their commitment to Penecostalism at the same time. You speak of the other side, which exists, of those who are dedicated to Pentecostalism but hesitate to ask critical, inquisitive questions that challenge the status quo. I am sorry about your hurtful experiences and can only remain prayerful in the hope that you remain committed to both the Pentecostal life and the life of the mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff Jackson</title>
		<link>http://renewaldynamics.com/2012/07/08/letters-to-a-pentecostal-scholar/comment-page-1/#comment-13238</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff Jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jul 2012 00:04:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://renewaldynamics.com/?p=3878#comment-13238</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wolfgang,
Thanks for sharing this. I am most aware of the anti-intellectual history of Pentecostalism. It endures to this day in the Bible Belt, specifically, Arkansas where I live. My Facebook post is a running guerrilla war with fundamentalist/literalist/legalistic attitudes, churches, and people. Still today questions or doubts in Pentecostal churches are not permitted. 

In February, 2012, I invited two atheist friends of mine to go to a local Pentecostal church. One demurred, telling me that the last church he attended some 30 plus years ago the preacher called him out and embarrassed him. I laughed and told him that &quot;Pentecostals don&#039;t do such a thing with atheists&quot;. How wrong I was!

The other atheist friend, a Messianic Jewish couple, and I went to hear a Christian Zionist, Christian Dominionist, and &quot;prosperity gospel&quot; televangelist from, where else, Oklahoma. After standing for a protracted praise and worship, we all sat down, and shortly the visiting &quot;rabbi&quot; took the podium. He proceeded to &quot;release the Einstein spirit of greatness&quot; from a young black woman, to release the &quot;hurt&quot; (without apologizing for white genocide) from one-third of the Caucasians who came forward to be prayed over as &quot;Indians&quot;, to prophesy that &quot;missiles&quot; will be delivered into the hands of &quot;True Believers&quot; (the LAST place I think we need missiles), and that out of this one congregation this year would arise another &quot;Facebook&quot; and another &quot;Google&quot;, i., multi-billionaire companies.

This last prophecy mirrored his website where, under the heading of &quot;God&#039;s Coming Transfer of Wealth&quot; he prophesies that: &quot;Those with no money will become millionaires; those who are millionaires will become multi-millionaires; and those who are multi-millionaires will become billionaires.

Then he commanded everyone to rise so that he could &quot;graft you into the Tribe of Israel&quot;. After hearing the foregoing, Mike (my atheist friend) and I did not rise. At that point he pointed his finger at me and thundered, &quot;Rise! Why will you not rise?&quot; I remained silent. He then asked, &quot;Are you a Christian?&quot; And I answered, &quot;Yes, sir, I am.&quot; He then says, &quot;Why will you not rise then?&quot; I did not answer him. Then he directed the elders, &quot;Ushers, escort these people out of this church.&quot; The ushers/elders came to the end of our pew, and we remained seated, peacefully saying nothing. This angered him immensely, and at this point he stuck his finger at us a fourth time and shouted,&#039;&quot;If you don&#039;t leave this minute, I am going to call the police and have you arrested for criminal trespass.&quot; At that point, not wanting to make a scene, we arose and walked out, escorted by the holy goons, one of whom immediately after our exiting the building stuck his hand/palm toward me and said, &quot;I rebuke you in the name of Jaysus!&quot; Not being an un-bold Pentecostal, I stuck my hand right back toward him and responded, &quot;I rebuke the spirit of religion in this church---in the name of Jesus.&quot; The next morning the pastor of a church that I have legally represented for years, posted a Facebook comment and rebuked me publicly. This same pastor then blocked me on Facebook because I wrote him an email trying to discuss the issue, intellectually and theologically, with him. 

As I said, questions/doubts/challenge/intellectual inquiry are not always permitted. This is only the tip of the iceberg in my dealings with this anti-intellectual strain in Pentecostalism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wolfgang,<br />
Thanks for sharing this. I am most aware of the anti-intellectual history of Pentecostalism. It endures to this day in the Bible Belt, specifically, Arkansas where I live. My Facebook post is a running guerrilla war with fundamentalist/literalist/legalistic attitudes, churches, and people. Still today questions or doubts in Pentecostal churches are not permitted. </p>
<p>In February, 2012, I invited two atheist friends of mine to go to a local Pentecostal church. One demurred, telling me that the last church he attended some 30 plus years ago the preacher called him out and embarrassed him. I laughed and told him that &#8220;Pentecostals don&#8217;t do such a thing with atheists&#8221;. How wrong I was!</p>
<p>The other atheist friend, a Messianic Jewish couple, and I went to hear a Christian Zionist, Christian Dominionist, and &#8220;prosperity gospel&#8221; televangelist from, where else, Oklahoma. After standing for a protracted praise and worship, we all sat down, and shortly the visiting &#8220;rabbi&#8221; took the podium. He proceeded to &#8220;release the Einstein spirit of greatness&#8221; from a young black woman, to release the &#8220;hurt&#8221; (without apologizing for white genocide) from one-third of the Caucasians who came forward to be prayed over as &#8220;Indians&#8221;, to prophesy that &#8220;missiles&#8221; will be delivered into the hands of &#8220;True Believers&#8221; (the LAST place I think we need missiles), and that out of this one congregation this year would arise another &#8220;Facebook&#8221; and another &#8220;Google&#8221;, i., multi-billionaire companies.</p>
<p>This last prophecy mirrored his website where, under the heading of &#8220;God&#8217;s Coming Transfer of Wealth&#8221; he prophesies that: &#8220;Those with no money will become millionaires; those who are millionaires will become multi-millionaires; and those who are multi-millionaires will become billionaires.</p>
<p>Then he commanded everyone to rise so that he could &#8220;graft you into the Tribe of Israel&#8221;. After hearing the foregoing, Mike (my atheist friend) and I did not rise. At that point he pointed his finger at me and thundered, &#8220;Rise! Why will you not rise?&#8221; I remained silent. He then asked, &#8220;Are you a Christian?&#8221; And I answered, &#8220;Yes, sir, I am.&#8221; He then says, &#8220;Why will you not rise then?&#8221; I did not answer him. Then he directed the elders, &#8220;Ushers, escort these people out of this church.&#8221; The ushers/elders came to the end of our pew, and we remained seated, peacefully saying nothing. This angered him immensely, and at this point he stuck his finger at us a fourth time and shouted,&#8217;&#8221;If you don&#8217;t leave this minute, I am going to call the police and have you arrested for criminal trespass.&#8221; At that point, not wanting to make a scene, we arose and walked out, escorted by the holy goons, one of whom immediately after our exiting the building stuck his hand/palm toward me and said, &#8220;I rebuke you in the name of Jaysus!&#8221; Not being an un-bold Pentecostal, I stuck my hand right back toward him and responded, &#8220;I rebuke the spirit of religion in this church&#8212;in the name of Jesus.&#8221; The next morning the pastor of a church that I have legally represented for years, posted a Facebook comment and rebuked me publicly. This same pastor then blocked me on Facebook because I wrote him an email trying to discuss the issue, intellectually and theologically, with him. </p>
<p>As I said, questions/doubts/challenge/intellectual inquiry are not always permitted. This is only the tip of the iceberg in my dealings with this anti-intellectual strain in Pentecostalism.</p>
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		<title>By: Wolfgang Vondey</title>
		<link>http://renewaldynamics.com/2012/07/08/letters-to-a-pentecostal-scholar/comment-page-1/#comment-13236</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolfgang Vondey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2012 23:26:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://renewaldynamics.com/?p=3878#comment-13236</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for your comments. There are a small number of sources that summarize the development of Pentecostal scholarship. There was an issue of Pneuma a while ago dedicated to dialogue with the Jacobsen couple on education among Pentecostals. Amos Yong also summarized the development (he classifies three waves of Pentecostal scholarship), and there is a good summary of the history of the SPS by Vinson Synan. But much work needs to be done, especially on how, as you put it, Pentecostals &quot;give the Holy Spirit His rightful place&quot;. What does that mean in the universities and schools and in the concrete life of scholarship? That&#039;s where the rubber hits the road ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your comments. There are a small number of sources that summarize the development of Pentecostal scholarship. There was an issue of Pneuma a while ago dedicated to dialogue with the Jacobsen couple on education among Pentecostals. Amos Yong also summarized the development (he classifies three waves of Pentecostal scholarship), and there is a good summary of the history of the SPS by Vinson Synan. But much work needs to be done, especially on how, as you put it, Pentecostals &#8220;give the Holy Spirit His rightful place&#8221;. What does that mean in the universities and schools and in the concrete life of scholarship? That&#8217;s where the rubber hits the road &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Dodson</title>
		<link>http://renewaldynamics.com/2012/07/08/letters-to-a-pentecostal-scholar/comment-page-1/#comment-13234</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Dodson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2012 23:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://renewaldynamics.com/?p=3878#comment-13234</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dr. Vondey,

Thank you for your timely post. I am working on a paper concerning the development of theological education in the Pentecostal movement. I was hoping to address some of the same issues you mentioned. Having grown up in classic Pentecost, I can attest to this mindset. Even now as I attend seminary at Regent, I have felt a resistance from some brothers and sisters in ministry. Maybe now it’s not an anti-intellectual mindset, but some see it as a waste of time when the harvest is ready and there is work to be done. I disagree and refer to Oswald Chambers who said &quot;The good is the enemy of the best&quot;. As for me, I will give the Holy Spirit His rightful place at the center of my life, but I will also strive to be a scholar who serves my King with a whole heart and mind.

Blessings]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Vondey,</p>
<p>Thank you for your timely post. I am working on a paper concerning the development of theological education in the Pentecostal movement. I was hoping to address some of the same issues you mentioned. Having grown up in classic Pentecost, I can attest to this mindset. Even now as I attend seminary at Regent, I have felt a resistance from some brothers and sisters in ministry. Maybe now it’s not an anti-intellectual mindset, but some see it as a waste of time when the harvest is ready and there is work to be done. I disagree and refer to Oswald Chambers who said &#8220;The good is the enemy of the best&#8221;. As for me, I will give the Holy Spirit His rightful place at the center of my life, but I will also strive to be a scholar who serves my King with a whole heart and mind.</p>
<p>Blessings</p>
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		<title>By: Wolfgang Vondey</title>
		<link>http://renewaldynamics.com/2012/07/08/letters-to-a-pentecostal-scholar/comment-page-1/#comment-13233</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolfgang Vondey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2012 23:10:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://renewaldynamics.com/?p=3878#comment-13233</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Brian. Keep pressing on! Keep reading! Keep commenting!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Brian. Keep pressing on! Keep reading! Keep commenting!</p>
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